A New Marinemaster Release
Photograph by Seiko
This new SBDD001 Kinetic Direct Drive Marinemaster is slated for a May 2008 release. Details are sketchy, but here’s what I can tell you:
Movement is the 5D22 Kinetic with handwinding capability. List price is 241,500 yen. Size is indicated as a whopping 49mm. This might include the crown, but I’m not sure yet. Thickness is 15.1mm. Cases are titanium with diashield like finish. Watches will be available with strap and bracelet, and there also is a black cased model as well.
This release tells us in no uncertain terms a few things. First of all, Seiko truly is committed to the Kinetic movement, and secondly, they are boldly pushing their lines upmarket towards the luxury segments with their pricing strategies.
The watch is clearly styled after the Spring Drive 600M diver with it’s sawtooth bezel and screwback case. The hour hand looks very similar to what we’ve seen on the new GS diver and the minute hand is similar to what’s used on the new Direct Drive Brightz model. It will be interesting to see if this model gains popularity with the Seiko collectors.
April 21st, 2008 at 2:16 pm
hey pete,
its kinda nice. i do wonder though why incides have lines when bezel has doubts. isn’t a bit redundant? the watch is nice, has classic seiko lines, seems to be 22mm
people will be complaining about 3 things though:
1. 200m wr, they’d want 300+
2. kinetic. most purists will opt for the automatic
3. price. for a kinetic to be so expensive, it might be the only point for it not to sell very well.
time will tell
April 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Hi ptolemy,
Yes, I too can see people complaining about the WR rating. Everyone wants more now. 200M is so ordinary these days isn’t it.
I also agree with you about the kinetic points. I guess Seiko is in the midst of moving the kinetic line upwards. They have had some high priced kinetics in the past, notably the Landmasters, and I know there was at least one Kinetic Credor produced at one time too. For the most part though, I think that most consumers have some preconceived price limits for kinetic watches. Seiko may have some work cut out for them in order to move this movement up market in the 200,000+ yen range.
Thanks for reading,
petew
April 21st, 2008 at 5:27 pm
hi pete,
my hope is that seiko will not go citizen’s way and make kinetic what solar is for citizen; defacto standard - even replacing their famed, robust, 7c46 quartz movement.
this pretty much puts a lid on us hoping for any auto diver/chrono with 28,800 bpm movement and priced inside $1000…
April 21st, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Hello,
Nice new MarineMaster! I will just remind it will be the second kinetic MarineMaster watch (see the “Pipin” line such as SBDW015, “MarineMaster Kinetic Titanium Scuba 200m”).
see http://www.ittc.ku.edu/~jgauch/watch/diver_quartz/SBDW015.html
Main differences with SBDW015 are:
- 5M22 movement instead of 5M65; OK it’s a direct drive kinetic but we lose the GMT function
- diashield titanium instead of titanium, it will be much harder to scratch it
- design is very different; Pipin Ferreras, who supposedly designed the SBDW015, was at this time the world recordman of free diving, and he did really designed a free diver watch; this new MarineMaster design is more classical, in line with other Seiko divers,
- cost is much higher, 241500 Yen, instead of 150000 for SBDW015 when it was marketed in 2000
; price increase is higher than just inflation effect!
- much less markings on the dial, but MarineMaster is no longer on the dial
; I suppose it is written on the back of the case.
I agree with you Pete, it is probably a sign that Seiko wants to put Kinetic watches in the high segment of watches.
In one of my former posts, I told that, IMHO, Kinetic was a better technical approach than SpringDrive. So, I am happy to see Seiko regularly add Kinetic watches to its Prospex line (I guess it’s a Prospex, isn’t it?); this watch will join the “Sting Ray” ScubaMaster, the “Pipin” MarineMaster, the LandMasters an FlightMasters, and even the “Zetaring” chronograph in the paradise of Kinetic Prospex watches!
But I still expect a high frequency quartz, temperature compensated, Kinetic high grade watch, in one of the top Seiko lines… (I explained that it would be technically possible with Kinetic watches, not with SpringDrive ones, beacuse of electric power needed).
Why not a high precision Kinetic Grand Seiko chronograph?
Best Regards,
MikeNovember
April 22nd, 2008 at 5:58 pm
mike,
actually 1st marine master model was a quartz one:) but thats another story
i think these models are not 5m65 thats fairly ubiqutous on landmaster and few others.
i THINK this uses new direct drive 5n22(could be wrong) which can be hand wounded but doesn’t keep time for 6 month.. (3 i think)
anyway:)
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:59 am
Ptolemy,
I think you misundertood what I wrote.
5M65 is used in SBDW015, the 2000 year Kinetic MarineMaster model (I am one of the happy owners!
.)
This new one uses, as per Pete article, a 5N22 Direct Drive Kinetic movement. Compared to 5M65, this movement has two pros and two cons:
- pros: direct drive; power reserve indicator (permanent display, instead of a push button; one potential source less for water ingress!)
- cons: 1 month power reserve (see power reserve indicator) instead of 6; no GMT function (no 24h hand).
I Think that, globally, the choice of 5N22 movement is a regress from 5M65. I would have been pleased to see a movement deriving from 5M65, with 6 months reserve, permanent display power reserve indicator, GMT and Direct Drive. This would have been a progress!
Moreover, you seem to be afraid that 7C46 movement would be replaced, in the future, by Kinetic ones. Apparently you think that Kinetic implies low grade quartz movement. This is an absolutely wrong statement: Kinetic is no more than adding an electric power generation and storage system to a quartz movement.
Generation and storage system could be added to 7C46 movement, changing it into a Kinetic one, without changing any of its technical characteristics; this could also be done with a high frequency (higher than the standard 32 kHz one, say in the range 200 kHz - 4 Mhz) quartz, temperature compensated one. This would be strongly in favor of Kinetic technology: a self-powered, very high precision quartz watch!
Maybe this, also, would strongly show the limits of SpringDrive technology, today’s quartz Seiko flagship! Since a high frequency, temperature compensated quartz watch needs more electrical power, such a quartz reference is not compatible with SpringDrive which delivers only very limited electrical power.
That’s why I am afraid that, in order to not compete with SpringDrive, high grade quartz will disappear from Seiko lines of products: it is not a question of technical capability, just marketing!
MikeNovember
PS: 5M65 is exceptionnally accurate; I have noted with my SBDW015 that, after having derived down to 5 - 6 s late in the first four months (which is very low), the drift has stopped and, on the latest 8 months, the watch is “perfectly” (not measurable) accurate. I don’t know if I am lucky, or if 5M65 is a high frequency quartz, or if it is temperature compensated (no technical information available from Seiko, just that guaranteed accuracy is +/- 15 s per month).
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:51 am
yes of course i follow your point but my comments were rather speculation since if what you said it’s true, then why would seiko sevelop 5n22 and other calibers and just mod their high qiality 7c46?:)
in the end, who knows what seiko will do and decide, but the ultimate kinetic movement you seek might be available on some high end model.
i guess time will tell