Editor’s note:

Greg Heath, who posts under the name heat on the Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum (SCWF) has been a friend of mine since I met him in 2001 at a “watch meet” that was organized by none other than Reto Castellazzi, founder and owner of the Poor Man’s Watch Forum (PMWF). The venue was the former Regent Hotel in the exotic city of Bangkok, Thailand.

Fast forward to 2007. Greg and I are in a slightly less luxurious environment, huddled over our drinks in a smoky, dimly-lit bar in Bangkok. It appears that we’ve come full circle, sort off. It’s after 5:00 pm, and the bar is relatively subdued with its clientèle quietly nursing drinks, probably happy to escape from the heat and humidity of the city, even for a short while.

GREG HEATH INTERVIEW

Greg, when I first met you, pretty much all you had in your collection were European timepieces. However, anyone who’s seen your numerous posts on the SCWF can attest to you having a most formidable collection in vintage Seikos. What turned you on to the brand?

I think when we first met, I’d not yet become interested in vintage watches. New watches are simply better advertised and more available and that was where my fledgling interest in watches was focused. I think I owned at least one Seiko SKX titanium diver with a 7S26 movement, but I’d also recently purchased a couple of Zenith watches as they offered pretty good value at that time.

The first vintage Seiko that captured my imagination was a silver dialed 6138-8020 I acquired from a local Bangkok dealer. I was immediately impressed with the design, because although 25-years-old, it looked fresh. The watch was also a good size, unlike many vintage pieces, and it seemed like a lot of watch for the money. I subsequently learned more about the 6138 movement and that ignited my interest in vintage Seikos.

At the time I had a Zenith El Primero Rainbow Flyback Chono’, the one with the colored subdial and I became interested in the history of the first automatic chronograph movements. I discovered that although the 6138 was released within months of the El Primero and the Heuer-Buren-Hamilton-Breitling Caliber 11, the Seiko 6138 was the only movement to have all of the following features:

• Automatic winding

• A full-size rotor

• Fast day and fast date

• Vertical clutch for chronograph engagement

• Column wheel chronograph function switching

The 6138 was a long way ahead of the competition. I wrote a story once about the time I acquired my black-dialed 6138-8020.

So my local watch pusher said he’d meet me Friday at the exit from the Sky train station at Asoke, just before you cross to Soi Cowboy, and we’ll go for a beer and then I can give him the ’67 Worldtimer in trade for his ’74 Worldtimer and return the Omega bracelet because the end links just don’t seem to fit quite right.

So I stood and waited for a few minutes and soon spotted a lovely young lady, with all the natural elegance that Thai ladies in Bangkok have, as she walked towards me. She saw me watching her and gave me a great big smile as she went by and crossed Asoke. You know that Bangkok is really the place to be because I am 45-years-old and still they smile and appreciate the attention. I spent a minute admiring the view as she crossed the road, long black hair flowing, and then she turned and waved as she reached the other side. She hadn’t forgotten me. As she went by the bars on Asoke corner, she looked back twice more to see if I was still following her progress, which I faithfully was.

A minute later my watch pusher arrived on the back of a motorbike and immediately went into a high speed narrative. Where does he get his energy from? Before we had even crossed Asoke, he thrust this 6138-8020 into my hand “I bought this 5 minutes ago and immediately thought of you”. We hadn’t even sat down yet and I was already bowled over. “Wow, you really do get the watches!”

We made our way into Asoke Corner to a new small, hole-in-the-wall bar opened by an English central heating engineer (not much work available in Bangkok) who was a refugee from the carnage at Soi 10. The army had moved in with bulldozers in the small hours and destroyed about 50 bars and shops to make way, allegedly for a new hotel. The folks who had businesses there had received no warning and everything was bulldozed. Bars, pool tables, computers, silk goods, clothes, everything destroyed. The rumor was that people with an interest in a hotel project evidently had army connections and wanted the area cleared quickly with no fuss. Minimal compensation and some sympathetic lip service have been paid to the poor unfortunates that lost their livelihoods, businesses and jobs. How can this happen in the middle of a major city? Just one of the numerous perils of doing business in Bangkok where the rich make the rules.

The hole-in-the-wall was pretty sad. The mama-san had quit and the boss was there on his own, with a pool table and two fans and a total of four customers who weren’t going to stay around very long, what with no view and all. A couple of beers later and another watch addict arrived to meet our favorite watch dealer. He really gets the stuff! His pieces are in excellent condition - automatic, handwind, steel, 14k, gold filled, chrono, Brequet overcoil, chrono, moonphase, Seiko, Swiss, whatever turns you on. My fellow watch addict sported a Plo-prof in superb condition which he had bought from the pusher, of course. What could I say, except, “Are you going to keep it?” It was a classic watch.

A few beers later and I was on my way home with my fix, the 6138. The hands look like new hands, but they are Seiko hands and I have seen this very model in an old Seiko catalogue. I left the pusher and my fellow watch devotee to the quest of bars with better views in this steamy, exotic town . . .

Speaking of the El Primero, I recall you having a Zenith Flyback Chronograph with this movement. Do you still have it?

“Time will tell” as the saying goes and I discovered that I would rather have a good example of a 6138 than my El Primero. The Zenith was really quite an old fashioned looking design and the bracelet was particularly poorly integrated with the case. Given the amount that I had invested in the 6138 and in the Zenith as well as all the other design factors, I decided to sell the Zenith el Primero. The 6138-8020 is still in my collection. In fact I have acquired a couple more examples of 6138-8020s as well as other vintage Seikos with the same movement. It would not be hard to find a new watch with the El Primero movement, but the relative difficulty of finding a vintage 6138-8020 in really good condition just adds to the appeal. It really is an exceptional watch.

Editor’s note: At this time, the waitress brings us our dinner orders. Greg, true to his English heritage, ordered the bangers and mash, while I chose the beef curry, which, along with the chutney, is rather tasty.

To pick up on what you just said, sometime ago, you had told me that you had an opinion on serious Seiko collectors, versus serious collectors of other notable European marques. Help refresh my memory.

Well, it’s just that most vintage Seikos are worth pretty much the same $200 that they were worth several years ago. So, it is fairly obvious that Seiko collectors are not buying these watches because they are speculators. People collect vintage Seikos because they love the watches for what they are. Vintage Seikos are appealing in their own right and because they are generally affordable, it is within reach to build a decent collection. They offer a lot for the money, value perhaps rivaled only by solid gold vintage pocket watches.

If you are going to collect something then you may as well make it something that you like. That way if the objects go down in value, you can enjoy them for what they are.

What’s your personal philosophy when it comes to acquiring vintage timepieces?

My focus has definitely shifted to vintage watches. I have acquired some watches that I bought new over the years and those I can wear knowing that if they accumulate the inevitable scratches and dings, they can be replaced relatively easily. I must say though, that I have been particularly successful at keeping my watches from harm as I am always conscious of them when I wear them. I also take my watch off if I am doing an activity that might result in a knock and some colorful language. I never have subscribed to the “beater” watch mentality. So the watches that I bought new get the most wear and my vintage pieces are worn less because I prize them more. They cannot easily be replaced.

But getting back to your question, I have enough watches, so it is difficult to justify buying any more. However, if I can buy a watch that will likely appreciate in value, then hey, it isn’t difficult to justify the purchase to me, or to the Ministry of Home Affairs, for that matter.

That is where vintage watches really come into the picture as selected models from certain manufacturers really have been appreciating in value over the last few years. I look for popular sports models that appeal to me also, in unusually good condition. One with papers is even better. The best examples are the ones that are worth paying more than average for as collectors will continue to pay a premium for them in the future. They were only ever made in relatively small numbers, they aren’t making any more and they are becoming scarcer as they disappear into private collections.

Making sure that everything is as it should be regarding originality is key, so there is a bit of homework to be done. Books and of course the websites offer lots of information, fortunately. Having access to a good watchmaker is also important as many a vintage watch requires at least a clean, if not a replacement part or two. Bangkok scores highly here as parts are available and there are a few good watchmakers, as well as many watch butchers.

One thing I’ve noticed about Bangkok is the great frequency of watch fairs that take place in this city. There seems to be one every other month in a major mall. As I recall, you even picked up a new Grand Seiko at one of these events. Tell us more about them.

One of the great things about living and working in Bangkok is that it is possible to see a large variety of interesting watches. Both Central Chidlom and Siam Paragorn shopping centers have a watch fair every year and both European and Japanese watches are well represented.

In 2005, I visited a watch show at The Mall, Bangkapi and there I saw several Grand Seikos, including the SBGR031. After handling the watch, I had to visit the nearest ATM machine and make a purchase. I had long admired Grand Seikos and this particular one was larger than others that I had seen at 39.4mm in diameter. It also showed it’s Seiko heritage distinctly in the design elements, more so than some of the older GS watches that reminded me of vintage Omegas. The SBGR031 is quite controversial in design as it is quite angular, especially the crown protectors. The angular styling is consistent throughout the case design though and the crown protectors call to mind some current Seiko diver’s watches.

I was a little concerned that I might lose interest in this watch over time as it is quite dressy, with a deep black glossy dial. However, this is probably the watch that has grown on me the most over time. The watch exudes quality, has an appealing heft when held in the hand and the dial and hands are magnificent to behold. I could go on extolling its virtues, but you get the picture. This GS is a keeper for me.

Since these Watch Fairs almost always focus on new watches, tell us about the vintage watch stores that you personally frequent.

I do the rounds fairly frequently to see what has turned up. A place where vintage watches can always be found is Chatuchak weekend market, which happens to also be probably the hottest place on earth. Wear cool clothes when you go to this crowded market and if you can find the Aviva Bar across the alley from the antique section, the fruit shakes at this oasis provide welcome relief.

One dealer specializes in Seikos and I now know him well. A couple of years ago he was wearing a much sought after vintage Seiko 300m 6159 high-beat diver. After admiring the watch, which was in excellent condition, I asked if he would be interested in selling it. He told me no and I could understand why. When I went back a couple of weeks later, he had traded the watch for something else and I learned a valuable lesson. Don’t ever think that a dealer will not sell a watch. They will sell their own grandmother for the right price! I should have made him an offer for the watch.

There are one or two dealers in MBK Center and Central World Trade Center also and one in Siam Center One of the local dealers invariably has vintage pieces that are in near mint condition, so his shop is a dangerous place for me to go.

I have bought many watches from a well known dealer who sells through a website and has an enormous turnover of watches. He lives in Bangkok and is a friend of mine. He works really hard to find vintage pieces, traveling frequently within the Asia region scouring the watch haunts and visiting watch shows.

What was your last acquisition and which direction do you think your collection is headed?

The last watch that I bought was a beautiful Breitling Cosmonaute from the late ’60s or early ’70s. The Cosmonaute has a 24-hour dial. The condition is fantastic and it was hard to resist, so I didn’t bother trying. For reasons already mentioned, my collection will continue to hurtle headlong into the past.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to rant about watches.

Now that we have discussed watches, tell us a little more about Greg Heath, what he does, and how he ended up in Thailand.

Who? Oh yes. Sorry it’s the Heineken you know. Well, I am a watch collector and a pragmatist. Actually I am very fortunate as I am able to live and work in Thailand. I am involved in the rape, pillage and plunder of the planet in the search for oil and gas by a major multinational conglomerate. It sounds like an ugly business doesn’t it? But until we can come up with a viable alternative to fossil fuels, someone has to do it. When I arrived in Thailand ten years ago, I was single and had $100 in my pocket. Well, I am not leaving until I get it back.

How? In summary, years ago I was working on an assignment in Vietnam and I heard that someone was looking for me in Thailand as I had been referred by someone in the industry. So when my project in Vietnam finished, I flew to Bangkok and had an interview. The job did not start for another six months, so I flew back to Canada where I was living at the time and continued working on rotation in Yemen until the dream job in Thailand started up. Then I moved to Thailand on the strength of a six month contract and I have been here ever since. Moving to Thailand was not a difficult decision for a single male to make of course. I didn’t stay single for long!

You mentioned your new house in the countryside. How’s that coming along?

Well, that is another story and thanks for bringing it up. A friend pioneered the whole thing by building some recycled and refurbished old traditional teak houses on a river bank in Prachinburi province, just outside Khao Yai National Park.

He and his wife are now our neighbors as we bought just along the river bank and continued the theme with traditional Jim Thompson Thai style teak houses. The houses are anything up to 100 years old. For us it is the perfect place to get away from the city at weekends for some relaxation where the air is clean, the grass is green and there are lots of trees. Because of their low mass, the houses cool off quickly at night and do not require a lot of air conditioning. It is also always a few degrees cooler than Bangkok, being so close to the river and mountains.

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RETO CASTELLAZZI INTERVIEW

Editor’s note:

My trip certainly would not have been complete had I not spend some time with another good friend of mine, Reto Castellazzi—the founder and owner of the Poor Man’s Watch Forum. Reto and I met for lunch at another watering hole in the city of Bangkok, and perhaps one consistent thread is the affinity for Guinness in this city!

As you may recall, we first met in 2001 over at the Regent (now the Four Seasons) at a gathering that you had organized, and a lot has changed since then. How is the PMWF coming along? And do you foresee any major changes in the immediate future?

PMWF has steadily grown and the best thing in addition to the growth is that the friendly atmosphere has been maintained. Almost everybody–including myself–was afraid that with a bigger forum, some concessions regarding a family-like ambience on the PMWF would be unavoidable. Amazingly, that has not happened.

What I would like to see is an addition to PMWF that would allow a better friends management, a bit like a Watch Facebook. So far I have not found a suitable piece of software that would easily allow integration with the forum software. We have the PMWF profiles, but they are quite limited. I think a “watch friends management” add-on that would be fully integrated would help to further develop the community.

It is widely known that you have a very extensive watch collection. What was your last acquisition, and why did you acquire it? Is there a watch on your list that you’re still looking to get? You have told me in the past that you are more interested in movements and the actual timepiece itself. Which particular movement would you like to dissect next, and why?

My last acquisition was an Auguste Reymond. This was probably my last buy because I wanted that brand in my collection. I was attracted by the vintage looking dial and the simplicity of the design.

Yes, today movements are my passion. There are of course a lot of movements missing in my collection. I have actually started to buy movements without the watches whenever I find them. I definitely want a SEIKO 6R15 or 6R20 sometimes, just to check out on the handwinding and hacking features. Then there are three chronograph movements I would like to add to my collection. The Miyota Cal. 8110 flyback chronograph, the SEIKO Calibre 6139/8 chronograph and the Lemania Cal. 5100.

What does the future hold for you? You have lived in Thailand for quite a number of years now. Do you foresee yourself moving back to Europe?

It largely depends on the career path [university] of my daughter. It is because of her that I am living in Thailand. If she decides to study abroad, I will most likely move too.

If there are things that you would like us to know, please feel free to share them with us, Reto.

One thing I am trying to raise awareness of is fair working conditions for workers in the watch manufacturing industry. While I know it is very difficult to know about the background of where each watch is made and by whom, I still think the buyer has some influence with his buying selection. And of course, stay away from fake watches; those are most likely manufactured by rogue factories using very suspicious funding. There have never been more alternatives of legal and inexpensive good quality watches then today.

Editor’s note: Reto Castellazzi is certainly of one of the most widely-read individuals I know, with an uncanny ability to discuss in great depth almost any topic that is thrown on the table. It was certainly time well spent to have been able to reunite with both Greg and Reto during my last trip to Thailand. I’m already looking forward to my next visit with them.

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